Social Harmony and Fraternal Peace

 

Nebadon Urantia

Would Jesus be a big government Democrat or small government Republican ?

“I have come into the world to proclaim spiritual liberty to the end that mortals may be empowered to live individual lives of originality and freedom before God. I do not desire that social harmony and fraternal peace shall be purchased by the sacrifice of free personality and spiritual originality.” – Jesus U141:5.1B

Shouldn’t we just let the Thought Adjusters do their work of promoting “originality and freedom before God” without government interference in our “individual lives” ? Is this why the Urantia Book says that government that governs the least governs the best ? Is this why “Social Justice” is not mentioned anywhere in the Bible ?

“Spiritual unity is derived from the consciousness that each of you is indwelt, and increasingly

Comments
Anthony Cecil
Anthony Cecil When I first read the UB in ’84, I was apolitical. Everything in the book made common sense and I found myself in total agreement with it. Later on, when I started paying more taxes and didn’t like some of the facets of our societal changes I observed, I discovered I fell in the conservative camp and was therefore Republican. Every political comment or innuendo in the UB is decidedly conservative. It’s incredible to see how some readers twist and spin the teachings in the UB to suit their political agenda.
Nebadon Urantia
Nebadon Urantia They don’t seem to want to get their minds straight. Too bad. . .
Anthony Cecil
Cecil
The greater question is, how does one profess to believe in the FER yet disregard a pervasive theme throughout the revelation? Do you take the book at face value or not?
Nebadon Urantia
Nebadon Urantia What do you mean by FER ?
Anthony Cecil
Anthony Cecil Sorry, Fifth Epochal Revelation
Nebadon Urantia
Nebadon Urantia Face value while trying to understand an authors perspective or lack thereof.
Nicky Bendix
Nicky Bendix (1581.4) 140:8.17 “Jesus never intended to formulate economic theories; he well knew that each age must evolve its own remedies for existing troubles. And if Jesus were on earth today, living his life in the flesh, he would be a great disappointment to the majority of good men and women for the simple reason that he would not take sides in present-day political, social, or economic disputes. He would remain grandly aloof while teaching you how to perfect your inner spiritual life so as to render you manyfold more competent to attack the solution of your purely human problems.”
Nicky Bendix
Nicky Bendix In answer to your note: Jesus would be niether. In making a spin on the teachings of Jesus and the UB to make them political you are missing the real and higher purpose of the FER wich is the spiritual development and uplifting of every soul on the planet and complete spiritual unity despite intellectual (and political) disagreements.
Nicky Bendix
Nicky Bendix (180:5.2) “You can know the truth, and you can live the truth; you can experience the growth of truth in the soul and enjoy the liberty of its enlightenment in the mind, but you cannot imprison truth in formulas, codes, creeds, or intellectual patterns of human conduct.”
Nebadon Urantia
Nebadon UrantiaRe: “the real and higher purpose of the FER”
Gee, I never read anywhere that your concept was the purpose. I thought the REAL purpose was this:
(1.1) 0:0.1 IN THE MINDS of the mortals of Urantia — that being the name of your world — there exists great confusion respecting the meaning of such terms as God, divinity, and deity. Human beings are still more confused and uncertain about the relationships of the divine personalities designated by these numerous appellations. Because of this CONCEPTIAL POVERTY associated with so much ideational confusion, associated with so much ideational confusion, . . .Seems to me YOUR spin adds to “conceptual poverty”.
November 30, 2011 at 9:03pm · Like

Comments
Warren Wolfe
Warren Wolfe I believe he would ignore politics as he did while he was here.

Anthony Cecil
Anthony Cecil Warren, it would depend upon his mission purpose in this hypothetical. It was clearly not an integral part of his bestowal mission but it is doubtful He would ignore it upon His return, unless we had evolved to a point nearing light and life and then it would obviously be unnecessary. Just as Jesus was born to the most desirable couple in the most advanced civilization of the day, the revelators presented the UB to the most advanced political/social environment in the world for the greatest advancement of this Revelation. It is here for the benefit of the world, using the USA as a springboard. How far would the message have been capable of spreading had any other country been chosen? The values and mores that have made this country great can not be abandoned just so we can become mediocre and acquiesce to inferior countries/cultures.

Warren Wolfe
Warren Wolfe Do you think Jesus would march with the OWS crowd?

Nebadon Urantia
Nebadon Urantia Doesn’t seem it would be God’s will.

Nicky Bendix
Nicky Bendix (1580.5) 140:8.10 “But never make the mistake of identifying Jesus’ teachings with any political or economic theory, with any social or industrial system.”

@ Nebadon Urantia: You are making a very poorly disquised attempt to put a republican spin on the UB. It is explicitly stated that if Michael was here toay he would be a big disappointment to many since he would refuse to take sides with and political group but would do everything he could to save the individual. And the UB states that the ideal governmetnt should control society to prevent the few to exploit the many.

Nicky Bendix
Nicky Bendix (1581.4) 140:8.17 “Jesus never intended to formulate economic theories; he well knew that each age must evolve its own remedies for existing troubles. And if Jesus were on earth today, living his life in the flesh, he would be a great disappointment to the majority of good men and women for the simple reason that he would not take sides in present-day political, social, or economic disputes. He would remain grandly aloof while teaching you how to perfect your inner spiritual life so as to render you manyfold more competent to attack the solution of your purely human problems.”

Nebadon Urantia
Nebadon Urantia Nicky Bendix “And the UB states that the ideal governmetnt should control society to prevent the few to exploit the many.”
Can you give me a reference ?

Nicky Bendix
Nicky Bendix I will gladly help you find the paragraph, as soon as you give me the reference to the place in the UB where you read the statement that the OWS isn’t Gods will.

Nebadon Urantia
Nebadon Urantia (802.12) 71:2.18 9. Control of public servants. No civil government will be serviceable and effective unless the citizenry possess and use wise techniques of guiding and controlling officeholders and public servants.

Nebadon Urantia
Nebadon Urantia (803.1) 71:3.1 . . .”no state can transcend the moral values of its citizenry as exemplified in their chosen leaders. Ignorance and selfishness will insure the downfall of even the highest type of government.”

Nicky Bendix
Nicky Bendix “Ignorance and selfishness will insure the downfall of even the highest type of government” and here you directly point to the problem with uncontrolled financial markets. The ignorance and selfishness of the free market will ultimately bring any nation down due to to an uncontrolled acummulation of wealth into the hands of a few while draining the rest of the society and ultimately destabelising it and causing it’s downfall.

Nebadon Urantia
Nebadon Urantia Is this Democrat or Republican philosophy ?

(803.7) 71:3.7 The laws of the ideal state are few in number.

Comments
Warren Wolfe
Warren Wolfe I believe he would ignore politics as he did while he was here.

Anthony Cecil
Anthony Cecil Warren, it would depend upon his mission purpose in this hypothetical. It was clearly not an integral part of his bestowal mission but it is doubtful He would ignore it upon His return, unless we had evolved to a point nearing light and life and then it would obviously be unnecessary. Just as Jesus was born to the most desirable couple in the most advanced civilization of the day, the revelators presented the UB to the most advanced political/social environment in the world for the greatest advancement of this Revelation. It is here for the benefit of the world, using the USA as a springboard. How far would the message have been capable of spreading had any other country been chosen? The values and mores that have made this country great can not be abandoned just so we can become mediocre and acquiesce to inferior countries/cultures.

Warren Wolfe
Warren Wolfe Do you think Jesus would march with the OWS crowd?

Nebadon Urantia
Nebadon Urantia Doesn’t seem it would be God’s will.

Nicky Bendix
Nicky Bendix (1580.5) 140:8.10 “But never make the mistake of identifying Jesus’ teachings with any political or economic theory, with any social or industrial system.”

@ Nebadon Urantia: You are making a very poorly disquised attempt to put a republican spin on the UB. It is explicitly stated that if Michael was here toay he would be a big disappointment to many since he would refuse to take sides with and political group but would do everything he could to save the individual. And the UB states that the ideal governmetnt should control society to prevent the few to exploit the many.

Nicky Bendix
Nicky Bendix (1581.4) 140:8.17 “Jesus never intended to formulate economic theories; he well knew that each age must evolve its own remedies for existing troubles. And if Jesus were on earth today, living his life in the flesh, he would be a great disappointment to the majority of good men and women for the simple reason that he would not take sides in present-day political, social, or economic disputes. He would remain grandly aloof while teaching you how to perfect your inner spiritual life so as to render you manyfold more competent to attack the solution of your purely human problems.”

Nebadon Urantia
Nebadon Urantia Nicky Bendix “And the UB states that the ideal governmetnt should control society to prevent the few to exploit the many.”
Can you give me a reference ?

Nicky Bendix
Nicky Bendix I will gladly help you find the paragraph, as soon as you give me the reference to the place in the UB where you read the statement that the OWS isn’t Gods will.

Nebadon Urantia
Nebadon Urantia (802.12) 71:2.18 9. Control of public servants. No civil government will be serviceable and effective unless the citizenry possess and use wise techniques of guiding and controlling officeholders and public servants.

Nebadon Urantia
Nebadon Urantia (803.1) 71:3.1 . . .”no state can transcend the moral values of its citizenry as exemplified in their chosen leaders. Ignorance and selfishness will insure the downfall of even the highest type of government.”

Nicky Bendix
Nicky Bendix “Ignorance and selfishness will insure the downfall of even the highest type of government” and here you directly point to the problem with uncontrolled financial markets. The ignorance and selfishness of the free market will ultimately bring any nation down due to to an uncontrolled acummulation of wealth into the hands of a few while draining the rest of the society and ultimately destabelising it and causing it’s downfall.

Nebadon Urantia
Nebadon Urantia Is this Democrat or Republican philosophy ?

(803.7) 71:3.7 The laws of the ideal state are few in number. . .See More

Nebadon Urantia
Nebadon Urantia (803.8) 71:3.8 No society has progressed very far when it permits idleness or tolerates poverty.

Nicky Bendix
Nicky Bendix “tolerates poverty” – there’s a none-republican statement 🙂

Nebadon Urantia
Nebadon Urantia Republican or Democrat ? Why have so many Democrats who left the Democrat party saY that the party left them.

(803.9) 71:3.9 A moral society should aim . . . Social evolution should be encouraged by governmental supervision which exercises a MINIMUM of REGULATIVE CONTROL. That state is BEST which co-ordinates most while GOVERNING LEAST.

Nicky Bendix
Nicky Bendix “That state is BEST which co-ordinates most while GOVERNING LEAST.” – but it does not say WHAT it should govern 🙂 Might be the banks or the financial sector – to prevent the few to exploit the many. Your intepretastions at large again – also shown in your need to highlight certain words and meanings wich highly directs how the quote (in your opinion) is supposed to be interpreted.

Nicky Bendix
Nicky Bendix Here is my answer again to your question “Repunlican or democrat?” – for the sake of chronology since you edited your comment:

It is neither – the UB is not a political manifest to support this or that political wing in 2011 AD in a geographical area that we at the present moment call the U.S. You take things out of context and read your own political views into it and exhaust yourself filling in the gabs to make it all fit your agenda. Your quote here (again) is taken out of context and basicly just says that the citizens of a healthy society must contribute to society through their work and make their own living independently. Very few people would argue with that.
The loss of jobs is the major problem today, not the lack of peopkle who wants to work.

Nebadon Urantia
Nebadon Urantia Nicky Bendix · “You take things out of context”

I’m citing the Urantia Book so people can read for themselves. What are you citing besides your Ad Hominem remarks ? Seems you are citing your own prejudices.

Nebadon Urantia
 Nebadon Urantia Nicky Bendix · “That state is BEST which co-ordinates most ”
Tell us what you think it means. . .

Nicky Bendix
Nicky Bendix Since you don’t seem to be producing the reference where God says that OWS is agains his will I will anyway point you in the direction of the paragraph that clearly states that government should prevent the few to eploit the many:

Look under 5., 6. and 8.

Note that it does not say that “vicious minorities” can’t be rich or use other force than physical violence to further their cause.

(798.5) 70:12.6 If men would maintain their freedom, they must, after having chosen their charter of liberty, provide for its wise, intelligent, and fearless interpretation to the end that there may be prevented:

1. Usurpation of unwarranted power by either the executive or legislative branches.
2. Machinations of ignorant and superstitious agitators.
3. Retardation of scientific progress.
4. Stalemate of the dominance of mediocrity.
5. Domination by vicious minorities.
6. Control by ambitious and clever would-be dictators.
7. Disastrous disruption of panics.
8. Exploitation by the unscrupulous.
9. Taxation enslavement of the citizenry by the state.
10. Failure of social and economic fairness.
11. Union of church and state.
12. Loss of personal liberty.

Nebadon Urantia
Nebadon Urantia Nicky Bendix “The loss of jobs is the major problem today”

Because of government intervention in the marketplace. It’s called Socialism.

Nebadon Urantia
Nebadon Urantia Nicky Bendix “Since you don’t seem to be producing the reference where God says that OWS”
Are we to assume that the OWS stated goal is what you think it is?

Nicky Bendix
Nicky Bendix I am off course

putting a different spin on the UB than you do – and actually I am not nesecarily agreeing with the intepretations I myself have posted here – I simply wanted to show you that what you post here is YOUR views, how YOU see the book, not nessecarily the teachings of the Urantis Book itself.
My point is simply that the UB is not a political manifesto and to use it as such is directly deleterious to the FER since it removes the focus from the spiritual mission of the revelation from being just that, a spirutal revelation for all mankind, by turning it into a secular dogma.

God bless you
Love and light
NIcky Bendix

Nebadon Urantia
Nebadon Urantia Nicky Bendix · “Since you don’t seem”

And the following paragraph states:
(798.18) 70:12.19 These are the purposes and aims of constitutional TRIBUNALS acting as governors upon the engines of representative government on an evolutionary world.

This has to do with the Court System. How many judges do we have that make up their own laws ?

Nebadon Urantia
Nebadon Urantia Nicky Bendix “I am off course”

When we make statements and accuse other people of being nefarious, can’t we CITE the UB so people can read for themselves? Let the people get their communication of what the UB statements mean from their own Thought Adjusters. Otherwise, it seems we are interfering with the work of the TAs.

Nebadon Urantia
Nebadon Urantia Nicky Bendix · 26 mutual friends
“free marketplace to counteract the greed” there’s a contradiction in terms 😉

I disagree. There is no contradistinction. If the government would let the people have free choice, it gives the Thought Adjusters a way of imputing into the decisions. One-size-fits-all takes away people’s choices. Greed is kept to a minimum because people have choices. i.e. quality of this vs price of that. How does that work in socialism ? Not very efficiently as demonstrated many times in history. Crony capitalism is just more interference with the TAs.

Nebadon Urantia
Nebadon Urantia Nicky Bendix “Since you don’t seem to be producing the reference where God says that OWS is agains his will”

130:1.5 . . .Evil is the immature choosing and the unthinking misstep of those who are resistant to goodness, reject beauty, and disloyal to truth. Evil is only the mis-adaptation of immaturity OR the disruptive and distorting INFLUENCE OF IGNORANCE. Evil is the inevitable darkness which follows upon the heels of the unwise rejection of light. Evil is that which is dark and untrue, and which, when consciously embraced and willfully endorsed, becomes sin. . .

John Stevens
John Stevens (1093.3) 99:7.5 Economic interdependence and social fraternity will ultimately conduce to brotherhood. Man is naturally a dreamer, but science is sobering him so that religion can presently activate him with far less danger of precipitating fanatical reactions. Economic necessities tie man up with reality, and personal religious experience brings this same man face to face with the eternal realities of an ever-expanding and progressing cosmic citizenship.

Nebadon Urantia
Nebadon Urantia (803.8) 71:3.8 No society has progressed very far when it permits idleness or tolerates poverty.

Nicky Bendix
Nicky Bendix “tolerates poverty” – there’s a none-republican statement 🙂

Nebadon Urantia
Nebadon Urantia Republican or Democrat ? Why have so many Democrats who left the Democrat party saY that the party left them.

(803.9) 71:3.9 A moral society should aim . . . Social evolution should be encouraged by governmental supervision which exercises a MINIMUM of REGULATIVE CONTROL. That state is BEST which co-ordinates most while GOVERNING LEAST.

Nicky Bendix
Nicky Bendix “That state is BEST which co-ordinates most while GOVERNING LEAST.” – but it does not say WHAT it should govern 🙂 Might be the banks or the financial sector – to prevent the few to exploit the many. Your intepretastions at large again – also shown in your need to highlight certain words and meanings wich highly directs how the quote (in your opinion) is supposed to be interpretated.

Nicky Bendix
Nicky Bendix Here is my answer again to your question “Repunlican or democrat?” – for the sake of chronology since you edited your comment:

It is neither – the UB is not a political manifest to support this or that political wing in 2011 AD in a geographical area that we at the present moment call the U.S. You take things out of context and read your own political views into it and exhaust yourself filling in the gabs to make it all fit your agenda. Your quote here (again) is taken out of context and basicly just says that the citizens of a healthy society must contribute to society through their work and make their own living independently. Very few people would argue with that.
The loss of jobs is the major problem today, not the lack of peopkle who wants to work.

Nebadon Urantia
Nebadon Urantia Nicky Bendix · “You take things out of context”

I’m citing the Urantia Book so people can read for themselves. What are you citing besides your Ad Hominem remarks ? Seems you are citing your own prejudices.

Nebadon Urantia
Nebadon Urantia Nicky Bendix · “That state is BEST which co-ordinates most ”
Tell us what you think it means. . .

Nicky Bendix
Nicky Bendix Since you don’t seem to be producing the reference where God says that OWS is agains his will I will anyway point you in the direction of the paragraph that clearly states that government should prevent the few to eploit the many:

Look under 5., 6. and 8.

Note that it does not say that “vicious minorities” can’t be rich or use other force than physical violence to further their cause.

(798.5) 70:12.6 If men would maintain their freedom, they must, after having chosen their charter of liberty, provide for its wise, intelligent, and fearless interpretation to the end that there may be prevented:
1. Usurpation of unwarranted power by either the executive or legislative branches.
2. Machinations of ignorant and superstitious agitators.
3. Retardation of scientific progress.
4. Stalemate of the dominance of mediocrity.
5. Domination by vicious minorities.
6. Control by ambitious and clever would-be dictators.
7. Disastrous disruption of panics.
8. Exploitation by the unscrupulous.
9. Taxation enslavement of the citizenry by the state.
10. Failure of social and economic fairness.
11. Union of church and state.
12. Loss of personal liberty.

Nebadon Urantia
Nebadon Urantia Nicky Bendix “The loss of jobs is the major problem today”

Because of government intervention in the marketplace. It’s called Socialism.

Nebadon Urantia
Nebadon Urantia Nicky Bendix “Since you don’t seem to be producing the reference where God says that OWS”
Are we to assume that the OWS stated goal is what you think it is?

Nicky Bendix
Nicky Bendix I am off course putting a different spin on the UB than you do – and actually I am not nesecarily agreeing with the intepretations I myself have posted here – I simply wanted to show you that what you post here is YOUR views, how YOU see the book, not See More

Nebadon Urantia
Nebadon Urantia Nicky Bendix · “Since you don’t seem”

And the following paragraph states:
(798.18) 70:12.19 These are the purposes and aims of constitutional TRIBUNALS acting as governors upon the engines of representative government on an evolutionary world.

This has to do with the Court System. How many judges do we have that make up their own laws ?

Nebadon Urantia
Nebadon Urantia Nicky Bendix “I am off course”

When we make statements and accuse other people of being nefarious, can’t we CITE the UB so people can read for themselves? Let the people get their communication of what the UB statements mean from their own Thought Adjusters. Otherwise, it seems we are interfering with the work of the TAs.

Nebadon Urantia
Nebadon Urantia Nicky Bendix · 26 mutual friends
“free marketplace to counteract the greed” there’s a contradiction in terms 😉

I disagree. There is no contradistinction. If the government would let the people have free choice, it gives the Thought Adjusters a way of imputing into the decisions. One-size-fits-all takes away people’s choices. Greed is kept to a minimum because people have choices. i.e. quality of this vs price of that. How does that work in socialism ? Not very efficiently as demonstrated many times in history. Crony capitalism is just more interference with the TAs.

Nebadon Urantia
Nebadon Urantia Nicky Bendix “Since you don’t seem to be producing the reference where God says that OWS is agains his will”

130:1.5 . . .Evil is the immature choosing and the unthinking misstep of those who are resistant to goodness, reject beauty, and disloyal to truth. Evil is only the mis-adaptation of immaturity OR the disruptive and distorting INFLUENCE OF IGNORANCE. Evil is the inevitable darkness which follows upon the heels of the unwise rejection of light. Evil is that which is dark and untrue, and which, when consciously embraced and willfully endorsed, becomes sin. . .

John Stevens
John Stevens (1093.3) 99:7.5 Economic interdependence and social fraternity will ultimately conduce to brotherhood. Man is naturally a dreamer, but science is sobering him so that religion can presently activate him with far less danger of precipitating fanatical reactions. Economic necessities tie man up with reality, and personal religious experience brings this same man face to face with the eternal realities of an ever-expanding and progressing cosmic citizenship.